[00:00:00] Shelby: Hi, Athena, how are you doing?

[00:00:04] Athena: I’m great. Thanks Shelby. Nice to.

[00:00:08] Shelby: I am so glad to have you on here today. I had read this cute little Facebook posts that you had posted in a women’s Christian group. And it just spoke to me so strongly, and it was such a small little post, but such a big story.

[00:00:23] And I was like, I have to talk to this. This sounds like someone I really need to get to know. So thank you so much for agreeing to be here. Little did I know that when I read that little story, just what an amazingly big person you are with everything you were doing for God. And starting from, publishing, you’re an author, you’re a speaker.

[00:00:45] You do all sorts of amazing things. First off, just tell us who Athena is.

[00:00:50] Athena: Gosh I am a publisher podcaster, a YouTube content creator author I’ve written four [00:01:00] books. Do a lot of speaking, do a lot of teaching in, I pioneered. The independent publishing movement in the Christian market back in the early nineties.

[00:01:10] So I’ve been in publishing 35 years and I’m also now a pastor’s wife and bookstore owner, and a I, and most notably a spiritual abuse survivor.

[00:01:28] Shelby: And I can’t wait to unpack that story because that just, it sounds so incredibly fascinating and something that’s going to be so enriching for our listeners and everybody here today.

[00:01:38] Just because a lot of us have been through things like that too. So nobody’s fake journey is ever straightforward. Everyone has things. We have bumps in the road and you actually had said in something that you had sent me you had been through a toxic and restrictive. Colt. No small words.

[00:01:54] That’s a pretty big thing to say. So I’d like to, bring this back [00:02:00] first though, to the beginning. how did you grow up?

[00:02:02] Athena: I started out with absolutely no Christianity at all. No Awana, no VBS, no nothing. I never heard the gospel till I was 30.

[00:02:12] My grandmother was a kind of celebrity in the unity church, which is pretty new age. And so pretty much my dad’s whole side of the family was they were all except for my dad and his brother, all the other siblings and his. We’re ministers for unity, which is the course in miracles and just very new age, new thought.

[00:02:39] I’m not Christian at all. And my dad pretty much was a self-made very successful God hater. So I pretty much took after him and had a pretty dysfunctional Family of origin. My mom wanted me to be like my brother who was perfect [00:03:00] child. And I was just a very strong-willed little Spitfire that gave her no peace at all.

[00:03:07] And so there was a rejection from her, which pushed me to want to be more like my dad. Lived a double life and all sorts of, he was not a healthy role model for me, but he was the one who nurtured me more than my mom. And I went through sexual abuse as a five-year old.

[00:03:30] So that happened, which of course I didn’t even really remember until I was in my forties. I became a complete wild child. Just. Did not at all conform to any sort of, the whole sexual abuse thing turned into promiscuity. And I ended up getting pregnant when I was 19 and my dad made sure that that was taken care of, which I didn’t even really understand what I was doing, but he just said, this is [00:04:00] what’s going to happen.

[00:04:01] And I went along with it. And then, and then. In a, my first marriage was physically abusive. Lots of domestic violence. He actually broke my arm while I was nursing my six month old four years in that happened. And I just said, I’m done with this, but it was such a shock to me to even be in a situation with someone that did that that it was okay.

[00:04:28] Women. I’d never, that was like, I’d never been around that. I just had a whole life up to, 34. I was just my backstory was just littered with trauma and pain and, my way to handle that was to dive into work and. Success and work my medication of choice, which worked for a while.

[00:04:57] Wasn’t very healthy, but it definitely [00:05:00] kept it stuffed away.

[00:05:02] Shelby: And I think that’s definitely what the world really promotes a lot is if you can’t do it, there’s strength is within you to get over these things and to move forward with things and it’s all up to you. And so you have to keep working, you have to do all the things to somehow, prove.

[00:05:19] This okayness about yourself. When we all know now coming to Christ that we have that hole inside us, that it can only be filled by him. And and that takes a long time sometimes for us to be able to figure out. So when did that happen for you? Cause I know you went back and forth with a few different things.

[00:05:34] So was there a turnaround point at that?

[00:05:37] Athena: Yes. I pretty much from probably my early twenties was involved in the new age involved in Scientology. So I had a bunch of that kind of mentality. That was all I had referenced for. I didn’t really understand anything I just really thought Christians were wimps and they like needed a crutch and [00:06:00] I didn’t.

[00:06:00] And so I was pretty much like my dad, I was a God hater. And when I was 33 early that year, I remember someone asking me, are you a Christian? And I thought. I’m not Jewish and I live in America. So yeah, I am a Christian. My bat was, I’d never heard what it even meant to be a Christian.

[00:06:24] So that was my, that was where I was at. And having come out of Scientology, I. That is a culture where everyone smokes. A lot of cigarettes, drinks, a lot of coffee drinks, a lot of alcohol and cusses up a store. I dropped the F bomb, probably every sentence had it in there somewhere. And when you’re around it, and everyone talks that way, you don’t think anything.

[00:06:55] It just becomes a way of life. You don’t think anything about it? And I [00:07:00] was working with a group of people in the insurance and securities industry and had quickly climbed my way up to being one of the first senior vice presidents. That was a female cause it was a very male dominated industry.

[00:07:15] And they were all Christians. So they’re all around me talking about how Jesus helped them do this and that. And I would just like eye roll, whatever, let’s get over this. Looking back, I think about how they must’ve been cringing on the inside , I remember one guy said, I listened to you make a presentation, wasn’t PowerPoint back then it was just slides. And he said, in an hour, you took God’s name in vain, at least 53 times. That kind of talking. It was like second nature to me.

[00:07:51] I just didn’t I didn’t even recognize it. And so that was the beginning of me, beginning to. [00:08:00] Recognize something and in the spirit of God, beginning to draw me. And I’m sure all these people that I worked around praying up a storm, like large don’t hold on her because I was super rough around the edges.

[00:08:15] And I was pretty much in the middle of a divorce, my husband at the time. Into the kind of Freeman movement where you don’t have to have a license to do anything you don’t you don’t ever want to use funny money. You have to have gold or silver. And it was this whole kind of John Birch society thing.

[00:08:39] And because he was involved in that, it ended up threatening. Work in the security industry. And so I, we had a big blow up and I just said, okay, we’re done. And I went away for the weekend and he ended up talking to one of his managers and [00:09:00] actually just, he was just in tears over, the D the implosion of our marriage.

[00:09:05] And he ended up saying the center’s prayer on a Lark, okay. I’ve never tried that. Sure. And I came home that weekend after that weekend and I was gone and it was like, who are you? And what did you do with Chuck? Because he was a different person and. So I ended up a couple of days later, he just came back to me and just said, can you please reconsider, can we try this again?

[00:09:35] And I heard myself say, okay, we can try again. And it’s I looked behind me and said, who said that? Because I had absolutely my mind was set. We were done. It was over. And. Then I realized, okay, we’re gonna try this again, but you’re one of them. And that means I am going to [00:10:00] have to do that, which I didn’t even know what that was.

[00:10:04] I just knew that I didn’t like it. And. So I called my manager and he sent me CS Lewis’s book on near Christianity. I don’t even remember what it said. That was 35 years ago. I already remember what I said. I just remember halfway through, I was bawling and going, oh my I need a savior.

[00:10:29] It was my first realization. Just because I made a hundred grand a year and I was successful on the outside didn’t mean anything. And so I called him up and said, okay, what do I do next? Do I have to say a prayer or something like that? And he prayed with me and medially every curse word that was part of my being.[00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Who I was completely gone completely. Like holy spirit mouthwash, boom, and never to return. It was miraculous and yeah, so that was in 1986. And that was a huge turning point. I was like appalled. I hated Christians and now I was one

[00:11:27] Shelby: that’s so awesome though. I see. You’re not the first person who’s been on this podcast with me to say. That about the curse words and the movie it’s like for whatever reason, all of these things that consume us before, it’s not like it’s because it’s a rule or a law you’re not supposed to cuss, or you’re not supposed to, whatever it is.

[00:11:47] It’s just that this transformation happens within our soul. That. Undescribable. You can’t even put it into words, but it changes everything. So what else changed after that? How did your [00:12:00] life unfold? Did you guys end up going to church? What’d you guys end up doing?

[00:12:02] Athena: We did end up going to church.

[00:12:04] We also ended up getting recruited into ministry full time ministry. Very quickly working with Vietnam veterans and their family members, which if I could just say if you’re a brand new Christian, you should not be in full-time ministry. That’s not a good, that’s not a good choice because you need to get.

[00:12:24] Your foundation built below you and, learning about scripture and scripture in context and all of those things. I didn’t do any of that. In fact, as we started out, I realized maybe six months later that I pretty much just said, okay, I’m going to say this prayer, but I’m not giving up anything.

[00:12:44] And I’m going to keep making. Six figures and I’m going to keep going down this path that I thought was what I wanted. It was kinda like my kingdom come, thy will be done. Thank you very much. And we had a guy who came in [00:13:00] and did some teaching at our board meeting for point man ministries, which was the ministry that we’d started.

[00:13:07] And he taught us the concept of praying Lord. Show me my heart, as you see it, because we see, the hardest to see fully wicked. Of course, we’re going to see all the good stuff. We’re not going to see the bad stuff. We’re gonna be blind to the bad stuff. And so Lord, show me my heart as you see it. And, oh my goodness.

[00:13:32] That was that all of a sudden I started seeing how shallow I was and now I really hadn’t surrendered. I, yes, I called him. But he was not my master. And so that was a huge turning point for me to see that, my money, my work, my success was a total. It was just total idolatry and I needed to repent.

[00:13:57] So I always get [00:14:00] emotional when I think about that, because I really, I didn’t deserve to be sick. And I, even after six months into it thinking, no, I can just do my own thing and not have to really give everything to God. That’s not the way it works. He wants to sanctify us. And so that was huge to come to that realization.

[00:14:27] But then as I jumped into full-time ministry with my husband, And began to teach Vietnam veterans and their family members about PTSD it wasn’t even a word back then PTSD and triggers and adrenaline and how, all of a sudden we started seeing wait a second.

[00:14:49] Vietnam veterans didn’t have a corner on the market for PTSD. It was anyone who went through trauma. Or significant wounding [00:15:00] is going to have those same symptoms. And I saw that post abortion syndrome with all the same symptoms as PTSD from combat. So it was like this heavy Revy. Whoa. Okay. That means those of us who are married to these guys, we have our own PTSD from all the trauma we’ve gone through.

[00:15:25] This is why you don’t just jump into full-time ministry. I needed some healing that I avoid it because I really didn’t want to go there, but nobody really made sure that I took those steps because I, I just jumped in. To the ministry.

[00:15:45] And that was, again, my drug of choice. That was what kept the pain down because it was an amazing crusade that we were on and veterans were getting saved right in the left. And it was just amazing, [00:16:00] but I’m realizing that, we were going to church, we were getting discipled. We were doing all those things.

[00:16:07] I didn’t really have an intimate relationship. I didn’t spend quality time with him. I’m a type a I’m a I was a workaholic and I just traded one addiction for another. And I went from work to ministry and so one of the biggest things that I believe was a turning point for me.

[00:16:32] Falling into deception. Even after I got saved is as we were unpacking as a leadership team, the Vietnam veteran wives, and I, we were all sitting around and we were like, okay let’s get a grasp on this. PTSD was a mental and physical thing that. It made sense when you’ve gone through a trauma to have those symptoms, that’s a [00:17:00] normal response to an abnormal situation that you experienced.

[00:17:06] And so we started saying, Lord, give us some spiritual, where’s the spiritual aspect to this whole. Thing that we’re seeing here with these veterans and the scripture that we were looking at was he heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wants. And I think it’s Psalm 1 47. And we looked at that and went and took the word wounds and translated it down to the Hebrew and.

[00:17:42] This was like, if you’ve ever had the Bible kind of start to glow and things, jump off the page at you. Like this is you better not ignore this. As I looked that up, the Hebrew word for wound, cause here, let me just [00:18:00] add one more thing. I kept feeling like. Those of us with wounding and veterans that are wounded, that hasn’t, haven’t been healed.

[00:18:11] Those wounds are what’s controlling us because we would see these veterans hear firecrackers that sounded like incoming artillery during the 4th of July. And they would be on the ground. They were like, it was an automatic response. To that sound that was similar to that sound back during their traumatic moments.

[00:18:38] And so seeing this okay. Our wounding is controlling us, not God. That can’t be right. And so here I look up that scripture and I look up the Hebrew word for womb. Okay. He heals the brokenhearted [00:19:00] and binds up their wounds. It said wound at sta Beth. That was the Hebrew word. It is an idol.

[00:19:11] Shelby: Wow. Wow. Wow

[00:19:17] Athena: that answers everything because here we are.

[00:19:22] We’re sending we’re in idolatry, even though we don’t realize it, it’s not like we’re on purpose. I’m going to just go out and commit idolatry today. I’m not going to listen to you, God, I’m going to go be an idolater of the day. No, none of us realize the consequence of not allowing God into heal those places.

[00:19:45] So here we are. With ears have dealt with an unhealed wounds that has become idols in our lives. And we don’t even know.

[00:19:59] Shelby: And we [00:20:00] all are carrying these in some way. We all have them. And I think idolatry is one of those things that, it is the thing that takes you away from God so often.

[00:20:08] So that is, so I didn’t know that that is that I’m going to go look this up to this amazing.

[00:20:14] Athena: I know it was just one of those heavy Revy . , I can’t believe I’m seeing this and this is that spiritual. Aspect to the physical and mental aspect of PTSD. This is what’s going on, and this is why we stay in bondage.

[00:20:32] And we can’t move forward and emotionally be healthy, which means we can be healthy spiritually. You have to be emotionally healthy before you can be spiritually healthy and you can’t get there. If you’ve got all these wounds that are controlled. And to see that and realize, I recognized and I repented, I said, Lord, forgive me.[00:21:00]

[00:21:00] I know it doesn’t, I didn’t do it on purpose, but the fact is that is what it is. It is idolatry. Forgive me. And I knew what I needed to do that. Was begin to let him into those places, get some counseling, do whatever I had to do to get some healing for, the sexual abuse, the domestic violence, the abortion, all of that stuff needed healing.

[00:21:26] And what I told all those other women to do. I did not do myself. So I said, oh, you got to repent. And then you’ve got to let God into those areas. I did not practice what I preached and, I can look back at now and see, that was the thing that made me vulnerable. It was disobedience. No question about it, but it was the thing that made me vulnerable to deception.

[00:21:59] Shelby:

[00:21:59] It [00:22:00] was about that because. I’m a self-made strong woman, myself. My past was from a very workspace religion. And I think that working for your even for God’s approval, but working for everyone’s approval was a big part of my life. And I would say that was more.

[00:22:18] My idol side too, is putting that away. And it’s something that I have to remind myself of every day. But you said it made you vulnerable. So where did that take you?

[00:22:28] Athena: Where that took me was about eight years into Publishing business, which kind of came out of the work with Vietnam veterans.

[00:22:37] Cause we published a book on PTSD that was very successful and we sold 10,000 copies and then it got picked up by Multnomah press and sold another 40,000. And then since then it’s sold quarter of a million copies and then. Experience for us was what actually started me on my [00:23:00] career in publishing because people were like, can you help me with my book?

[00:23:03] I’m like, yeah, I guess I can. And so eight years into the company that we founded, which was called wine press publishing, which was the first actual credible self publishing Christian company. Allowed authors to self publish, but still have a publisher we were eight years in and we published a book for a quote unquote past.

[00:23:28] Whose wife? I met at a Christian writers conference at Wheaton college. She was even helping the director. So she was in a very credible role. And she started to say to me, I think you are the publisher for my husband’s book. My husband’s a pastor. He’s written this book on this really difficult scripture, but it’s such an important scripture.

[00:23:50] And most traditional publishers wouldn’t want to read. This message and the message is so cutting edge and it’s, [00:24:00] so if you hear my language you’re hearing the grooming that is going on. That is appealing to my pride because it was this, we have the corner on the truth and the church at large is on the wide road and we’re on the narrow road.

[00:24:18] And. This is something that we believe, you’re going to be, you’re the one who needs to publish this because you’ll be able to understand how important it is. So flattery appealing to pride. All of that. Oh, I got the inside track here We ended up publishing that book for him.

[00:24:38] And that began a 12, almost 13 year detour into complete deception. Super legalistic. If you don’t do what he said as being the pastor, then you’re going to lose your salvation. If you don’t go back and pray about [00:25:00] XYZ and come to the same conclusion. That he’s decided is what God is saying. Then you’re in sin and you need to go outside the camp and you can’t come to church this week.

[00:25:10] You can’t fellowship with us because he need to repent and just all sorts of scripture taken out of context and use to manipulate control, shame, Sean. He was a complete narcissistic sociopath who. Just was willing to use God to get what he wanted. He ended up getting me to divorce my husband in Jesus’ name because, he didn’t really love God.

[00:25:42] And we did, and he got me to cut off my family members and not talk to them anymore. I didn’t talk to my kids for 12 years. He actually over, and this was again over, this was about 11 years in he [00:26:00] and his wife talked me into that it was God’s will because I was a woman. I shouldn’t be able to, I shouldn’t be over.

[00:26:08] I shouldn’t be the publisher over the staff of 20 people. Because scripture says women shouldn’t be in authority over. Chris, this is not a church, but nevertheless, that was what they used to get me to come to the conclusion that they want to meet, to come to. They pretty much brainwashed me using scripture out of context, to give them my $3.5 million company.

[00:26:37] Wow. For 10 hours. Wow. And basically the minute that I did that they cut my pay in half. So I couldn’t even afford my mortgage. They, kept like this very harsh discipline, which then of course. The way that they use scriptures to justify that as no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but if you learn from it, [00:27:00] and anytime you want to point out this doesn’t seem scriptural.

[00:27:04] This doesn’t seem right. They use well why don’t you get the log out of your own eye before you try to. Out of my, you have a bitter root, all these ways to shut you up and keep you controlled, which was the agenda. And and this guy, he stole, besides the fact that his family, once we got on the other end and were able to actually look at the books and see what he had taken over.

[00:27:35] He was taking between him and his family. They were taking half a million dollars a year out of my publishing company. Wow. This was working up to the point where he got it, out of my name and it was greed. It was evil, but it was absolute spiritual abuse that.[00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Misrepresented who Jesus was and who God was completely. And pretty much by almost at 13 years, I was to the point where I was like, you know what, if this is God, I don’t want him.

[00:28:20] Shelby: Yeah. And you know what? I think that’s a lot of people who ended up leaving something that is so serious like that, because if that’s all you know of who got is when you leave, you leave them all together because if that’s who he is, I don’t want any part of it. And that’s not an abnormal thing at all, but that’s not what happened with you.

[00:28:41] So what happened?

[00:28:43] Athena: So what happened was. As I walked away and just said, if this has God, I don’t want him. My son, because they had gotten me to a place over the year and a half after they got the company out of my name. They got me to the place where I [00:29:00] was on minimum wage. Okay.

[00:29:01] I founded the company 20 years before now they got me on minimum wage. So this is again, God’s discipline and. I was destroyed spiritually. I was destroyed emotionally. I was destroyed, but I thought, I need to repair. This is God’s discipline. I was so warped and at one point figured out that there was use tax that was due from the transfer of the company and the transfer of assets. And they were basically saying, okay, you owe that $15,000 and I’m like, you took away my livelihood. I don’t even have any credit anymore. I lost my house. I lost everything. And how am I supposed to pay for this?

[00:29:44] But I still think that this is wrapped. My salvation is wrapped up in this. So I have to do this to do the right thing. And finally, my brother asked the question. They didn’t figure out [00:30:00] that this was due and due to be paid by the people that received the assets. And if you didn’t realize it, if they didn’t realize that you didn’t realize it, why do you have to pay the whole thing?

[00:30:18] I was like, oh my gosh, I have been duped. Again, because I had the same realization with Scientology that I had been duped, different set of circumstances, but same, like light bulb going on. And so when I walked away from that. And my son took me to a lawyer cause I’m like, do I declare bankruptcy?

[00:30:43] I don’t even know what to do at this point. Cause I, I mean my absolute whites, this in the shambles, I lost everything. he took me this lawyer and the guy was like I’m not sure that you should do that because as I’m looking at this paperwork, this was fraud. What they did to you was [00:31:00] fraud.

[00:31:00] They stole your company. This was a sham. And then I took it to another accounting person who looked at the paperwork, the sale paperwork it’s in the same thing. And all of a sudden I was like, so that wasn’t God I realized, okay. They just used God to manipulate and control me, but who they were representing as God.

[00:31:26] So not who got us. So that was. The, the first major turning point of me realizing, wow, I just believed a lie for 13 years and gave up everything for it. What now God. And that became, that began a journey of me going through a bunch of counseling, a bunch of healing, and really, I think. Next biggest turning point for me was when I said to the Lord, [00:32:00] okay, Lord, what was wrong with me?

[00:32:04] That I would believe a lie is true and give up everything for it. What deficiency was in meat? Whoa, what was wrong there? And he showed me number one, my wounds that never got healed. Put me into idolatry, which made me vulnerable to the enemy’s deception. And so that was the first whoa.

[00:32:30] Okay. I get, because you can be an idolatry unknowingly or knowingly, and the devil doesn’t care if you know it or not. He, but if. He is going to open. That is an open door. He can come in and just deceive you in spades because you’ve allowed him in. And so seeing that, seeing the fact that I, when I jumping into ministry full time, I had [00:33:00] no idea what the difference was between scripture in context and scripture, out of context.

[00:33:09] And that was life-changing for me to realize that I was at, when I first met this guy and his wife, they quoted scripture. Like I used to cuss, every other sentence out of their mouth was a scripture. And I was like, man, where have I been? I’ve been a Christian for 13 years. And I feel like, I don’t know anything.

[00:33:31] To realize that, anybody can quote scripture out of context and make it mean anything they want, but that’s lots of people, but time. And so just seeing that and also seeing that my own lack of trusting God when we got that job in the guys. It’s a manuscript. The title was [00:34:00] hating for Jesus.

[00:34:01] Based on Luke 14, 26. If anyone wants to follow me, he has to hate his mother. Father, sister wrote write that script. That was his cornerstone scripture. They was building his ministry on which all cults use that scripture to divide families and get you not to talk to people who don’t agree with your doctrine.

[00:34:22] And I had to look back and go, people tried to warn me. There were all sorts of red flags, but they had already. Manipulated me and groomed me into shutting down anyone that questioned because, they said anybody that questions, this doesn’t really love God. They just love themselves.

[00:34:44] I had been completely groaned to shut out any red flags. So even when my editor who read the manuscripts, came to me and said, don’t publish this. It’s borderline [00:35:00] heresy. She was being nice about it. I didn’t, I had already been warned to be ready for that kind of response.

[00:35:08] And and he was going to print 5,000 copies that, I already had all the bills. I was going to pay with that money. So rather than trusting God and listening to the warning. I did my talk to the hand thing to God and didn’t trust God at all and just continued moving forward. So for God to show me how.

[00:35:32] I’d been groomed and I didn’t listen to wise counsel. I didn’t have a good foundation when I first got saved. So I was easily manipulated by scriptures out of context, and that my wounded had not been healed. And that left me vulnerable. Yes, what they did to me was wrong.

[00:35:54] It was evil. It was sinful. There’s no excuse for. But I had to be able [00:36:00] to recognize my part in that, because I had to own that. That was, they didn’t make me do it. I went along with it because of those wounds that had not been healed. Just, there were so many things that as I’m seeing that, and God’s answering that, that prayer.

[00:36:22] What was wrong with me, he showed me all sorts of things that I was easily manipulated by words. I was easily manipulated by scripture out of context. And that was because I wasn’t healthy emotionally or spiritually because I wasn’t eating.

[00:36:36] Shelby: Yeah. God loves us and he knows who we are, but we all have those things that make us vulnerable.

[00:36:43] Whether, it’s. The internet. Even that I, before this whole COVID time with my young daughter sitting there in front of the internet was, it was that was her vulnerable point and she really struggled with that and we all have it. We all have these vulnerable points. And I think that the [00:37:00] devil knows that too.

[00:37:00] But God also says I’m here with open arms and I can be your strength, but first you have to say, yes, I am a sinner. Yes, I am doing these things. Yes. This is my vulnerable point. And I need your help. And I think that’s the turning point I know for me is when I could actually come to God and say, I can’t do this alone.

[00:37:23] I need you. I’m not perfect. And I know, everything that is wrong with what’s going in me all of my vulnerable points and that’s when things changed for me, that’s when that turning point happened. So was there something specific for you that was like, oh yeah, like that really brought that to attention for you.

[00:37:44] That was like woop light switch. Now I’m moving life in a different direction.

[00:37:49] Athena: I think one of the final kind of straws right before my brother asked that question was when I tried to say [00:38:00] I’m going to try and find the money to pay this $15,000 use tax. And I’m really working on it. I’m working on, I was frantic, trying to make it right.

[00:38:07] Cause my salvation was wrapped up in all that. And I remember getting a Registered letter, I had to sign it and it was from their attorney saying we have waited long enough for you to get this news tax paid. And my client is increasingly tiring of the delay. So if this is not paid within whatever we will take further action and I’m like, I thought there was a scripture somewhere that says that you don’t Sue another believer so that was like the first.

[00:38:45] Okay. Oh yeah, totally. So then when my brother asked that question, it was just like, okay. Yep. This is not at all. What I thought it was, that’s

[00:38:54] Shelby: it feel like a brain explosion because I know so many people say like when they walk away from things like [00:39:00] this and when I walked away from the church, it, your brain explodes at first and then you have to rebuild all the.

[00:39:06] Athena: Absolutely. I had to go through every lie that I believed that was a core tenant to this legalistic life from the pit of hell and then find the scripture that showed the opposite to that. The truth in the matter. And just every single one, it was so good to see. Just, the enemy, the devil quotes scripture, he did it to Jesus in the wilderness, so it’s not like we should be surprised that’s what the enemy does to try and trip us up and just take us out of the game.

[00:39:43] Totally.

[00:39:44] Shelby: Yeah. But you’re in a very different place now. So how did you get here?

[00:39:49] Athena: Oh, my at that point when I walked away, I was 13 years. Never hadn’t been on a date, was told that I couldn’t remarry and that, I just needed to give [00:40:00] my life to the church and all of that.

[00:40:02] And in my ex-husband had already been actually married twice and was still married so that there was no. Option to reconcile. I did go back to him and say, you were right. I was wrong. Please forgive me. So we are we’re reconciled. As far as that goes, I went back and reconciled with all my children went to just trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life.

[00:40:27] Cause when they took the company over, I signed an on non-compete. Which, I couldn’t even stand next to a book in the seven 11 and, not be in, in a contempt of the non-compete clause. And even though it never would have stood up in court, but I didn’t even know what God, what am I going to do for the rest of my life?

[00:40:46] And after two or three months, my friend invited me to church, which it took me that long to be able to get. Step into a church. And she invited me to church here in the town [00:41:00] where the cult was and still was at that point. And about two months in the pastor’s wife pulled me aside and said, just so you know, I told Ross, if anything ever happens to me, he needs to marry you.

[00:41:17] And I’m like,

[00:41:21] I used to sit in church and look at this guy on the stage and go, Lord, can I have some. Like that guy, he loves his, family’s not a flirt. He’s got humility. He’s transparent. He loves you. He loves his kids. He loves his family. Can I have someone like that? So then when she said that to me, totally freaked me out and Actually about Saturday, maybe three months later, I ended up going to San Antonio to help my brother take care of my mom.

[00:41:58] So I had been estranged [00:42:00] from my mom and my brothers and I, so that all got, restored and I went and helped him. And while I was there, I was asked if I wanted to have a radio show and I had done. Lots of radio interviews from my time with point man. And I was like, wow, maybe this is what God’s going to do for the rest of my life.

[00:42:22] This is my new wife. Okay. And so I had this amazing radio show, a weekly show for women called always faithful, where we talked about God space, bull mess, and just, that’s the theme of my life since he rescued me from that and began to restore. So I did that and it was just, it was absolutely amazing.

[00:42:46] And God just continued to teach me to slow down, spend time with him, have that intimate relationship with him. I whined a lot about being single and, come on God, have I [00:43:00] waited long enough? Where am I at? And he just had to get me to a place where I was. Satisfied and content with just him.

[00:43:09] And he did get me to that point. And actually, I was just so sure that I was waiting for this friend of mine, who we never dated or anything, but I was just sure. Maybe, he had this traumatic divorce a couple of years before I was okay. I was waiting for him. And the next thing I heard Catherine.

[00:43:29] Who was the pastor’s wife that told me that I was supposed to marry her husband. If anything ever happened to her, turns out she was diagnosed with cancer. While I was in San Antonio, three months later, she passed away, had a list that she made on her death bed, telling her husband, these are the only five women you can even consider.

[00:43:52] Mary and I was number one on the list.

[00:43:55] Shelby: Oh, how funny?

[00:43:57] Athena: And. So [00:44:00] that happened while I was in San Antonio, lots to that, that we don’t have time it’s in my memoir where I tell them the whole story. But about three months later, right around the end of the year, I just knew in my heart that I, my whole thing about I’m waiting for this guy, but that was.

[00:44:21] What God was doing. And I had to repent for that. And I spent new year’s Eve 2013 just before the Lord saying, you know what? I don’t want to surrender everything with and think that if I surrender everything, you’ll get me what I want. So I just said my motive yet, please purify my motives. Lord. I just want you, I want to be happy with that.

[00:44:48] Regardless of what you do with me, I want to be at that place. And it was just a wrestling match that finally w in the middle of the night, it was like [00:45:00] that piece was there. I was, it didn’t matter what he did. If I was going to be single the rest of my life, that would be fine. And eight days later I got a text saying that wine press had closed down the company that I used to own, that I’ve lost to the cult closed down.

[00:45:20] And my former landlord asked if I would move back to Washington and start something to help all these authors and. I didn’t really, I wanted to stay in Texas. I love Texas. I didn’t want to be around all the memories of all the devastation and the loss, because it was all here in this little town and, claw, Washington, which is a suburb of Seattle.

[00:45:42] But the more I prayed about it, I felt like I had to do it because. It was my bad judgment that allowed all these authors to end up now orphaned and without a publisher. So I ended up going back and I’m [00:46:00] like, I don’t know, three or four days before I came back, Ross actually reached out to me and just said, Hey, y’all to call me sometime.

[00:46:10] Cause I got lots of time on my hands. ’cause, he basically been a widow at that point for three months or something like that. And that turned out, he actually had just told his elder board right before Christmas. Just want you to know I’m going to get married. And they all said to who he said, I don’t know yet.

[00:46:31] I just want you to know I’m going to get married again. And then God, just through a series of events. Connected us. So that then when I flew back to Washington, which was originally just supposed to be a trip to see my yeah. It went from being around trip to a one-way trip. And we knew immediately that this was it, that this was God’s plan.

[00:46:57] And so I was going to be a [00:47:00] pastor’s wife, which I had no idea what that meant. But we just so happened when he picked me up at the airport and we went and talked for a couple hours at a restaurant, turned out he had a boat that he and his family bought an old sailor. That they gave a new name to this had happened 13 years before they changed the name on the back of the boat, but down below their original name was still embroidered in the curtains below.

[00:47:27] And your original name of the boat.

[00:47:32] Shelby: That’s awesome. You’re like, this is perfect.

[00:47:36] Athena: I know it was my modern day Cinderella story and we have not, we’ve been married almost eight years now. Have not had a fight yet. Don’t plan to, and he is just, God just knew exactly what I needed. Someone who’s. Compassionate

[00:47:53] uh,

[00:47:53] shepherd not afraid of my strengths, not intimidated by that, but not.

[00:47:59] He’s [00:48:00] strong, but he’s not a controller. He’s not a manipulator. He’s not all those things that I experienced so many times that and have been betrayed by. So it has that absolute happy ending that, I’m still, I still pinch myself.

[00:48:17] Shelby: Wow. Wow. So now you are married. You are, you have your job where you’re moving forward.

[00:48:24] You’re helping women every day. I love watching your YouTube. I’ve watched your YouTube quite a bit and you talk to so many amazing women. Really what you’re doing for the Lord now is just huge. What would you say to people who are going through some of the struggles that you went through and are trying to find God and are lost and just looking for where to go, what would be your biggest advice for them?

[00:48:48] Athena: I think my biggest advice would be to ask the Lord everything, here’s what I say. Here’s what I see in my life and be real. [00:49:00] Don’t think he doesn’t already know it, but just, articulate to him. I see, my relationships are destroyed. I don’t even trust you whatever it is.

[00:49:11] And just ask him, Lord, what do you want to teach me? What have you been trying to teach me? And how do you want to redeem my life? And.

[00:49:25] I don’t know. I think Romans 8 28 is such a good place to start to understand that he is sovereign and things happen that are bad for all sorts of crazy reasons. We live in a fallen world, but Laura. How are you that scripture says that we know that he works all things together for good, for those who love him and are called according to his purposes.

[00:49:52] So I think if you can’t say yes, I love God and I know I’m called according to us. If you’re not at [00:50:00] that place yet, then I think the prayer would be Lord, just make yourself real to me. Show me who you are. And help me to understand your goodness and your faithfulness and what you want to do to take everything I’ve gone through and use it to help others because he can redeem.

[00:50:21] Really when I think of the 13 years that I completely was just absolute devastation to think that he can now use that to encourage others, to give. Two women who have been through trauma and need to take that brave step forward to start their healing and need to begin to trust God, even when they can’t imagine how to do that, just to be willing.

[00:50:47] And if you’re not willing, say, okay, please make me. Wow.

[00:50:53] Shelby: Thank you so much, Athena for going over all of this with us and just being so willing to share your [00:51:00] story from start to finish. You talked about your memoir, where else can people find you and find your story and connect with you? Because, this is a big one that I have loved every minute of getting to know all of this.

[00:51:12] Athena: So where can people find you? The best place is Athena Dean holtz.com. And that has links to my YouTube channel, to my all things, podcasts to my my book, everything.

[00:51:27] Shelby: Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anything else you’d like to add? Cause I don’t know what else you could because this was amazing, but

[00:51:33] Athena: let me just say that I, as bad as what I went through was.

[00:51:41] I really wouldn’t trade it only because I’m what God has done in my heart to make me more compassionate and more just more willing and authentic and some depths that I didn’t have before. I wouldn’t trade where I am now [00:52:00] with where I was before. And that’s what I had to go through to get to this place, to give hope to other people.

[00:52:06] I praise God for it. And yeah, I’m super grateful.

[00:52:11] Shelby: Awesome. Thank you so much, Athena. I appreciate it.

[00:52:14] Athena: Thank you so nice to be with you.